Here’s a little more on the logic side:
There are 4 options we can view when we put together two non-causal elements. For example, parents and kids—
Good Parents can have Good Kids
and
Bad Parents can have Bad Kids
but
Bad Parents can have Good Kids (isn’t this what salvation offers?)
and
Good Parents can have Bad Kids (Ezekiel 18
So, you see all the possibilities are out there unless things are truly causal (If…then).
………………………
Now, what about Faith and Works?
Faith can have Works
and
No Faith can have No Works
but
No Faith can also have Works (people trying to get into heaven based on their own good deeds)
and [so]
Faith can have No Works
The first three of these are clearly true, so why not the last one?
All of these possibilities exist—and, it is easy enough to notice that when a believer sins he doesn’t have works (for the moment at least); therefore, it must surely be possible for a believer not to have works.
Of course, what is normal is to have works and grow; but when people make works necessary to ‘prove’ something about faith I think they’ve left the real conversation in both ministry and God’s word.
Blessings,
Fred Lybrand
How are we defining works in these models?
Are works to be understood as:
1) deeds that others would agree are good.
or
2) righteous acts that please God.
If the answer is #2 then I am questioning if the third scenario in your list of four possibilities is really possible. Meaning if works are understood as righteous deeds then can an unsaved person really do works? Aren’t our ‘righteous deeds’ like filthy rags before the Lord?(Isa 64:6)
David,
Good thoughts. I think Cornelius presents a pretty interesting case since his almsgiving had come up before the Lord. I also think deeds can influence the degree to which one is judged in hell. But, they are rags in God’s estimation concerning our justification.
On the other hand, it really has to be works we evaluate as good (or better, ‘see’ as good)…so option number two is especially in view. Maybe we all do produce good works, but (as Ryrie observes) God is the one that judges.
Thanks,
FRL